BeansTalk
BeansTalk: Where Expertise Meets Opportunity, Mauldin & Jenkins' podcast, where we are sharing and showcasing our areas of expertise through conversations with practice leaders on their knowledge and experience.
BeansTalk
Beyond the Deal: Financial Guidance for Student-Athletes in the NIL Era
In this episode, we sit down with members of our NIL Advisory Team to explore why comprehensive guidance is essential for student-athletes and their families. From clearing up common misconceptions to highlighting overlooked opportunities, we discuss how education, financial literacy, and long-term planning can make all the difference. Whether you're a parent, coach, or athlete, this conversation offers valuable insights into managing NIL the right way.
About the Guest
Doug Moses is a Partner with over 25 years of experience. He specializes in audits of governmental entities, primarily cities, counties, school districts, state agencies, and special purpose entities. Doug is also a member and current chair of the Firm’s Executive Committee, which governs the actions and direction of the Firm and serves as a member of the Firm’s Advisory Committee.
About the Host
Brent Ullrich is a Partner with Mauldin & Jenkins, LLC, with over 15 years of experience in many areas of taxation and industries, most notably in healthcare, real estate, private equity, technology and professional services. He also serves as the Firm’s Tax Strategy and Research Leader, which offers technical guidance and identifies planning opportunities for the firm to support clients on complex issues across a range of technical tax areas.
Welcome to Bean's Talk, MJ's podcast where we are sharing and showcasing our areas of expertise through conversations with practice leaders on their knowledge and experience.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome back to Bean's Talk, uh, the podcast where we like to take big financial topics, hopefully uh break them down into helpful areas for uh businesses, families, communities, anybody that we're uh that we're trying to help. I'm your host, Brent Ulrich. Uh today I'm very excited to talk about uh something very topical right now, uh name, image, and likeness, and uh the associated services that that Maldon and Jenkins can provide. Obviously, talkable, topical. We've got college football season coming, and and that goes kind of goes hand in hand now with NIL and what is it, you know, who all's brought who all's benefiting from it. And uh excited to have uh Mr. Doug Moses here, who uh leads the NIL advisory team. Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm happy to be here, Brent. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So uh, you know, I I think the the biggest thing on everybody's mind is hey, you know, NIL advisory services, you know, what does that mean? And uh and and really why is M and why is Malden Jenkins, you know, why do they want to get into this uh this area?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure. So, you know, when I think about NIL and the opportunities it can present to a lot of families, um it's tr it's it's huge, it's tremendous. And I can see myself in the shoes of a lot of these uh young athletes, you know, coming out of high school. Um, you know, I played three sports, uh, ran track, played football, and played basketball. Um, you know, entered my freshman year in in 89 and and graduated in 92. Um, but going into my, you know, uh going into high school, you know, my brother had went off to uh the military in in 87 after he graduated, and so it was just me and my mom. And so again, playing three sports, everything was going well in my freshman year. And in my sophomore year, my mother um became disabled after um, you know, having a nasty fall, and she couldn't work anymore. And so she was, you know, drawing on her unemployment benefits, and you know, she was she was I was getting child support, you know, as well. So that kind of stabilized things. And and going into my junior year, I started getting letters uh from D1 schools, like University of Tennessee. Not to brag or anything. I know. Old Miss. Yeah, yeah. And um, so I was getting excited about the opportunity to go to college and play football. And, you know, at that time my mother was trying to get her Social Security benefits or her disability benefits started, but she kept getting denied. But I'm like, okay, hopefully it'll get approved before I get into my senior senior year. But unfortunately, it got denied again and again, and to the point where I kind of gave up. Um, I was getting a ton of letters. And it got to the point where if I got a letter from I saw an envelope with a university's name on it, I didn't even open it. I just threw it away. And so, and then by that time, my mother's um unemployment benefits ran out, and we started to get behind on some bills, and so I knew I had to uh forego going to college and to, you know, start working immediately after you know graduating from high school. And so I remember having to pick up two jobs, you know, and I remember, you know, going to the tobacco field and working, you know, from seven to like in the morning to like, you know, one o'clock and coming home and taking a shower and eating and taking a little quick nap before I went to another town, like 30 miles away from my home, to work on the shipping dock at uh um Walmart Distribution Center. And it was it was tough. And I remember during the fall when uh when football season started, and Friday nights were tough. And I wanted to be out there on that football field. I had you know classmates that went off to college and some were playing sports, and and I had some friends that were still in high school playing, and until those first three to four weeks were tough. Yeah. But could you imagine if we had NIL back then?
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's what I'm thinking, right? I mean, you you had to forego the opportunity of you know college scholarships play, you know, playing the sports, right? Because, hey, I've got I've got obligations here, and and fast forward to now, yeah. Well, maybe you could have done both, right? And so I think it's a good lesson of just like, hey, you know, you now there now there's an opportunity there. Right. We we want to help, you know, the athletes, we want to help the parents to navigate that opportunity as best they can, right? Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:And, you know, so that would have been a huge blessing, right, if we had that back then. But I probably would have made the same pitfalls, you know, went into the same pitfalls that a lot of these families and student athletes are going through, not realizing that, hey, you can't spend the gross amount that you're receiving monthly buying cars and you know, buying houses and things of that nature. And then the next year you get hit with IRS notification that you owe$100,000 in taxes. Yeah. And that's what's hurting a lot of people. And that's where we come in as trusted advisor, help you navigate through those NIL situations and the risks associated with that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Every time I kind of I kind of take a step back, right? Of when I I hear so-and-so is making this much money, and then I know, well, they're still teenagers, right? There's still the, you know, and I I think back to when I was in high school, it's like I I have no concept of taxes. Nobody told me how to file taxes when I was 18 years old, right? So there's got to be an element of hey, teaching people, helping people, financial literacy, all that. And I assume that's kind of what Melinda Jenkins is looking to provide.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Exactly. You want to the student athlete to focus on their academics, focus on their sport, protecting their reputation, right? Sure. And not have to worry about managing the NIL, the money, the income, the taxes, and all of that. They need to know the basic financial literacy, and that's what we can help educate them and their parents on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Well well, without going into too much detail, so what are some examples of the way that we can help, you know, people coming into this world? Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure, sure. Well, I first would say that if anyone um, you know, the first thing to do is whether you're in high school or in middle school or elementary school, right, playing a sport. Um the parents should make sure that the kids are building their content, right? Um, highlighting their their their the highlight reels, um, show their training, you know, their speed and agility and things of that nature. And kind of keep that going, you know, and so you want to build that name, image, and lightness, right? And build that content. So they want to make sure they're doing that uh first and foremost. Um, but then also, you know, start trying to build that team around you, build on those relationships even before receiving an NIL deal. And so we would come in and if you engage us to help you all, we're like sit down with the parent or the leader guardian along with that student athlete. And always would recommend, especially before they receive any type of NIL deal, is to sit down with our wealth manager first and do a financial roadmap, which is a free consultation, a 90-minute discussion, just kind of going over what their goals are, whether they see themselves and what they want to accomplish in the next several years. And then from there kind of start bringing in other experts from all the Jenkins to talk about, hey, let's do some financial literacy and education on what to expect about taxes, um, you know, setting up the proper legal entity um for your brand, for your NIL and things of that nature.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I mean, you like everything you're talking about, right? It's like again, we're talking about just these kids are young, like it's gotta be so overwhelming to them, right? Okay, so it's you know, I think let's let's take a step back and it's like, okay, I'm I'm a junior or soft or a sophomore in in high school, you know. Like I'm I'm I'm getting recruited. I I feel like there's some NIL in my in my future. So I I've got my first NIL deal on the horizon. Okay. Step one is hey, let's go get a financial, you know, kind of roadmap plan for me, you know, NIL and after. Right? Okay, kind of walk me through what the next few years look like. You know, I've I've getting some NIL money, maybe, you know, how do I how do I operate or or what can we take off that that the plate of that student?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure, sure. So um again, you know, after sitting down with them to go through that financial roadmap, um, you know, we sit down and say, okay, you know, let's look at what a potential contract will look like, right? And it's at a high level, not get into the weeds, and make sure the parents kind of understand as well, because we want to give them the confidence so that they don't feel overwhelmed, right? And so uh sitting down with them to kind of go through it in layman's terms on what things would look like, um, and also how to structure their their legal entity, right? And what the tax implications would be. Um but one of the biggest things is to kind of talk to them about thinking long term, not short term. You know, this is not, you know, get the deal, get the cash, and it's the end of the story.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's it's looking long term and and make sure they have that find foundation that is gonna sustain them for success in the future beyond their playing days. Um so just kind of give them that financial literacy and make sure the parents kind of understand that as well. Because again, the parents are the ones that are kind of guiding them, um, but they don't know what they don't know. And so our job is to make sure they are comfortable and so that they're not overwhelmed, as well as the student athlete. Because again, it it can be very stressful uh for a student to try to, student athlete to kind of worry about their academics, worry about, you know, learning the playbook and and excelling at a high level in their sport, and then trying to manage this as well. Sure. And so we want to relieve them of that pressure and stress. And hey, we got this for you. We're your trusted advisors, lean on us.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And you kind of hit on it earlier. It's like, hey, you know, this has to start pretty early. Like you got to protect your brand, you gotta protect your, you know, your intellectual property, so to speak, is kind of my name and my face. Right. And the earlier you do that, right, right, the better it's gonna be for you down the road and you know, even after NIL, right. So it's it's it's it's really just, yeah, creating that roadmap, making sure you're you're legally structured right, tax structured right, you know. I mean, is there any other aspects, you know, that that we need to be thinking of, you know, accounting or you know, anything else, right, down the road.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, sure. So one of the things that um guardian with management is an affiliate of Modern Jenkins, and and they would sit down with them to do that financial roadmap, and then the next step would be to put together like a financial plan for the parents or the legal guardian and that student athlete. And one of the things they do is it's not just about, okay, you don't you got a two million dollar, you know, uh NIL deal and we're gonna manage that for you. It's more than that. So they're gonna sit down with you and say, okay, you got this two million dollar NI deal NIL deal on the horizon. Okay, let's look at assurance, you know, or look at a will. Do you have a will? And your parents may have one or may not, but you as this, you know, this student athlete with this two million dollar NIL deal, you need to have a little protection that you probably honoristic. So you look at life insurance, you look at a will, you look at whether or not you have an umbrella policy, which you definitely need because if you're involved in an accident and they find out that you're the star, you know, running back for the University of Georgia with a$2 million NIL deal, they're gonna come after you personally. Right, right. And so having that umbrella policy will protect you. Long-term disability insurance, you know, are you thinking about that? What if you get hurt and you can't play anymore? And so those are the things that you would look at when you sit down and have that financial plan kind of put together through Guardian Wealth Management. And um, and so there's some things there that would definitely set that person up for success, not just as they're going into their collegiate career and with the NIL money and what have you, but as a professional uh athlete or or or not. Are you starting your career in in whatever degree that you decide to go and and pursue and for years to come?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So in other words, we're you know, we're trying to help you grow you and your your wealth, not just necessarily, it's not just NIL. It's right, it's hey, you know, after this or you know, to protect this, but you you're gonna develop some skills along the way.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. Yeah. And so, you know, I look at it that, you know, hey, you after you're done playing whatever sport it is that you're playing and you start various businesses, right? Let's say that you create a franchise and now you have a private equity firm wants to buy your business. And so, hey, you come to us and say, hey, I don't know what my business is worth. Well, we provide transaction advisory services so we can do an evaluation of your business to determine what it's worth. Um, so many different services that we provide to a lot of our clients, we're just bundling them up specifically to help these young athletes. And so, you know, I think about it like this, you know, like I said, we have all kinds of clients. We've been around for over 100 years providing audit, advisory, tax services. And again, whereas entrepreneurs, uh closely held family businesses, you know, auditing different companies in different industries, the whole nine yards, right? And so some of these clients we may just provide tax services for. Others we may provide more than just tax, fracture CFO services, um, tax controversial services and things of that nature. And so as you scale as a young athlete, way you know, past your plan years and starting these businesses, we scale with you. And we can help you with all of your challenges and needs and things of that nature.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that's the to me, that's the biggest thing. And I that's what I read a lot about, right? It's like when you're going through it as a student athlete, yeah, there's a lot more on your plate. And especially just, but there are a lot of skills you don't realize you're learning, right? And you become very entrepreneurial through this process.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And M and J is a great place to, you know, we we support entrepreneurs effectively, you know. And you know, that that that skill set really ties in. So you don't really notice until, hey, maybe your playing days are over, right? But oh wow, I've got, you know, I I I know how to build kind of a business and a brand, and and that's gonna help me in the future. And now I've got all these relationships to help me do it.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um I I remember watching this uh the interview with uh uh Marshawn Lynch, you know, the running back for the Seattle Seahawks. Love that guy. Yeah. Um I remember uh seeing that interview, and he was uh he said he never had a bank account until he got drafted, you know, in the NFL. That was the craziest thing. And so they had this financial literacy uh thing for the rookies. And so for like the first 45 minutes, he said he sat back with his feet propped up, wasn't really paying attention, right? And so the consultant had a list of names on the on the board. He said, What is common between all of these individuals? So those people that played in the NFL, NBA, and what have you. And so someone said, Oh, they're all Hall of Famers. He said, That's true. He said, but they also went broke. They made millions of dollars and went broke. Now Marshawn Lynch sits up and started asking questions. And the consultant says, So where were you the last 45 minutes when we were talking about all this? He said, I'm sorry. He said, just tell me what I need to do so that I don't end up on this list. And he said that was a turning point for him. And then that's when he built his team, his team. Yeah, trusted advisors, CPAs, attorneys, wealth managers, and he's doing also now with multiple businesses, he's acting, and he's doing great because he has that team that he leans on.
SPEAKER_01:So so who all's on that team, right? I mean, you you kind of have, I would say, yeah, you've got your business team, your your accountants, your tax advisors, you know, your wealth advisors, anybody else? I mean, you obviously there's an agent in there. I mean, is that we're all collaborating together.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. So you you know, you may have a specific sports management agent that you're working with, and then we can collaborate with them. You know, they may work more specifically with the NIL deal, but we can look at that, review that contract as well. Just look at, okay, what are the tax implications? Do you have the right legal entity set up, you know, based on that? You know, are you really not making sure that you're not, you know, signing up for obligations that you really can't meet, you know, or giving away, you know, rights to your name and image on a long-term basis. And so kind of help protect you and collaborate with others as well.
SPEAKER_01:Or just overwhelming yourself, right? And you know, I think you can probably get in a situation where you're saying yes to too many things, and now you're taking away from you know your duties on the field or in school. And you know, I think that team can, you know, maybe take a step back and say, whoa, whoa, maybe we're doing a little too much, you know, let's focus on the big picture.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh in terms of the M the Malden Jenkins team, you know, I mean, what in your eyes, what sets us apart from from anybody else providing these services?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. I can say we've we have I could say we've been around for a long time, right? And we have built out our advisory services, and we just cover so many different facets that we helped clients for years now. And again, just having that bundled up specifically to help these young kids at an early age and their parents. And so again, it can be let's say someone decided to, you know, kind of deal with the NIL on their own, the parents, the legal guardians, and that student athlete. And again, now you're in it. I gotta pay all these taxes and things of that nature. Um, I didn't set up a legal entity and things of that nature. So you didn't come to us in the beginning, but we can step in now and kind of, you know, jump in with all our all of our experts to kind of make sure to get you on the right track. And um, and that's key. Um and but um but yeah, like I said, with the tax controversial services, you know, and having the tax attorney partner uh here at the firm that does really well with getting you know penalties and entries, interests uh notified, umvoided and what have you, and and um, and then worked with coming up with a repayment plan versus you know a situation I heard a young man, you know, ended up in that situation and spent all of his money and and um and then realized he had to pay taxes at 37% based on his his amount that he received. And so uh he didn't have the money to pay it, and so he actually had to go to someone to borrow the money uh to pay it. But had he, you know, been with us, we're like, no, you don't have to do that. We can work out a repayment plan. We'll get the interest and penalties kind of voided and kind of work with you to kind of get a better uh structure and system in place. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean the big takeaway there is right, as soon as the with growth comes added complexity, right? And and yeah, especially when you start crossing state lines and maybe you owe taxes different states or your you know, you're licensing t-shirts, and now all of a sudden you're in the business of selling goods. You know, I mean it it can get out of hand very quickly. And I think you know, Maldon and Jenkins can really help at least, you know, uh tackle that, address the issues, you know, and uh and set you up for success down the road. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And so, yeah, I mean, like you said, with the bookkeeping services, we can handle that. If you decide to, you know, create a team of people that you're paying, we can do the payroll processing for you as well. So, you know, fracture CFO services if needed, if you get that big.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, if you're really saying, hey, I really want some some real CFO level insights into my uh my t-shirt biz, you know. Exactly. Um, yeah, that that that that's really fun stuff. And I think, you know, had I been, you know, had I been more athletic, I guess, you know, I would have been excited about that as a 20, 21 year old of just like, hey, I'm I didn't realize that, you know, growing a business could be this fun, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like I said, doing that at an early age, man, I it's and building those relationships. You know, you hear it all the time all the time, it's a little cliche. Your network is your net worth. It'll be your net worth. And that's it's so true. That's things that I've learned along the way. Um, relationships matter, and and networking internally within your organization and then externally as well. Um But building that team that you can lean on is crucial. Um But yeah, but these individuals they have to realize, and parents as well, it's long-term. It's long-term thinking and investing, and it's not short-term. You know, um, when I was in high school, um, I don't remember a lot of quotes, right? But my math teacher told me, um, she said, Doug, you said, she said, when you go off to college and you start your career, there'll be times where you're gonna have to postpone self-gratification until you reach your goals. And I'm 52 years old, and I still do that now in different aspects of my life. And so if these kids can realize, like, okay, I think long term, all right? If I'm lucky to make it to the NFL, what's the average career? I don't know. Three years, three years, something really less. Yeah. And so you gotta be very wise about how you spend your money and then also your reputation and what you post on social media and things of that nature. Um, you gotta you gotta protect your brand, your name. Um and that's key.
SPEAKER_01:What else? I mean, you know, we've talked a lot about, hey, you know, you gotta get a plan together, you gotta get a team, you know, trying to basically lift the weight of NIL and the business side of it off the athletes so they can focus on, you know, what they need to focus on. I mean, uh is there any other things they need to be thinking about, like w you know, how how else can we help them, or is that is that kind of the that's the process, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of times people don't think about mental health uh as it relates to what these young athletes are going through. Um I I knew a heard of an individual, um, again, you know, five-star player, uh, went to a D1 school, pretty significant NIL deal. And um a mutual friend that I know um was talking with this individual, and he and he told her, like, you know, everything is fine in the classroom, everything is great on the football field. He said, But I'm but I'm struggling uh mentally. I'm having to see a psychiatrist, you know, just to deal with all of this stuff. And so one thing I do like about guardian wealth management, again, they they do more than just manage investments and things of that nature. They help you manage life decisions. And one of the things that they look at is as well is your health, and which includes physical and mental. And so they identify in their little touch point meetings with uh these individuals, like, okay, uh, you're going through these these issues. We here's what you can do to kind of help from that perspective. Yeah. And so it's a holistic approach to everything that's gonna benefit that person uh on a long-term basis.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's been my favorite part about partnering with Guardian, is it's just been hey, how are you doing? Right. Like it's not, hey, how's your money doing? Exactly. Let's make sure you're doing good and you feel comfortable with everything that that's happening. Um as far as kind of the NL NIL landscape, right? Do you how do you feel like it's looking in the next couple of years? I mean, any six any substantial changes? Are we just gonna kind of see keep seeing more and more money come into the fold?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, there's always gonna be some changes. You know, they're gonna change some of the requirements and things of that nature. And so having a team that's gonna stay on top of that and being able to translate what those changes are gonna, how they're gonna impact these individuals, their parents and student athletes and things of that nature. And I think MJ does a really good job about regardless of what industry that we're in, anything that comes down the pipe, we do our research, we see how it's gonna impact our clients, and then we'll keep them abreast of how that's gonna affect them. Yeah. And so that's what we'll do in this space as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And it's great to be able to apply just, you know, not just NIL industry, you know, to uh expertise, but hey, if I've got a tax opportunity, savings opportunity for any client, I can go apply it here, you know, like you you get the benefit of, you know, an entire wealth of knowledge, not just in the NIL industry. Exactly. Exactly. I think we've we've gotten a good plan together, right? I mean, so hey, if if there's one thing that a student or a parent uh needs to take away from this, you know, what do you think the overarching is? Like I'm I'm I'm about to sign up for NIL or I'm there, or I've been a few years into it. What do I need to, you know, what what's the one thing to take away from that?
SPEAKER_00:I would say uh you know, keep learning, right? Start learning now, right? And that's a continuous process. Um lean and trust your advisors. So lean on your trusted advisors and think long term. Uh I think that's that's the key. Think long term. Um again, you know, that quick cash, you know, you know, you know, like most people, when they think of, oh, I make$100,000, they think that they're bringing home$100,000. That's not the case. And again, so just think long term and and how to create a legacy. And and that's what we want to see. You know, the reward for me is to to to get a young student athlete early in high school before they even sign an NIL deal. Um, see them graduate from from college debt-free, and they've had some financial literacy and education that they can take with them throughout their life. See them have a successful career uh and in the on the professional level, um, start businesses and see them create a legacy, generational wealth, yeah. And then engage in philanthropy, you know, giving back. Um that's the the success that I would like to see. You know, that's that would be very rewarding to see that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's even one of the things we haven't even touched on, right? Is is you know, success for your family, yeah. And you know, generational planning. And I think I think we provide that as well. Yeah, right. I mean, we're not it's not just you and your tenure as this, but it's a but what about your kids and your grandkids and making sure, hey, we've got you set up, you know, as many generations as we can.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and again, I'm a client of garden wealth management. I am a client of Martin Jenkins. You know, I'm into real estate investing, and and MJ does my business return on that on that LLC side. And so, and again, my wife and I are clients of garden wealth management. So I've gone through the financial roadmap, I've done the financial plan, and I'm still in the process of getting my financial house in order as far as as far as getting trust set up and doing estate planning. And so um, and so that's key, you know. And so again, if they're experiencing this at an earlier age, I'm now trying to do estate planning at 52, and my wife is 48, and so they're getting this this experience and this exposure at an earlier age, and that is that's gonna pay in huge uh dividends.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. Well, just like in sports, right? Yeah, hey, practice more the more you practice on the front end, the better it's better it's gonna be for you. Exactly. Well, yeah, well, and you hit on it earlier, it's it's hey, this a successful client, client and relationship is a we we just want to see you succeed. Yeah. And you know, we want to be that partner and help you along the way. Um, and that means success in life, not just success in NIL. Right. Right. Anything else to take away?
SPEAKER_00:Hey, we're just we're here to to provide assistance and help. Um we're just very excited about this. And like I said, you know, I could, you know, I can relate to uh a lot of things that some of these uh young athletes are going through, although I didn't, you know, play sports in college. Uh um, but I did have a somewhat redemption uh because I did an internship in France uh for seven months and and played at the the semi-level while I was there. Basketball. There you go. That's pretty cool. Uh but I was gonna try out for um basketball when I was at Georgia Southwestern State University. Uh um my uh freshman year, you know, and I had a chance to go to college after my mother uh got her disability benefit started. But in the pickup game, I ended up breaking my ankle. And so I basketball's tough.
SPEAKER_01:My back in when I was 25 played basketball, and that was the end of my basketball career. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I was like, oh well, I just focused on my academics. I think I I think I made it pay off. Yeah. Worked out. It worked out.
SPEAKER_01:But had it worked out on the basketball field, Mulden and Jenkson would have been here to take care of you.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's been great talking. Um I I I love that we're doing this. You know, I think especially just From where it's coming from, right? I mean, we we really want to help uh you know young student athletes. We want to help their families and uh just set them up for success uh you know for for forever. Forever, exactly. So thank you for joining us. Uh it's my pleasure. And and thank everybody uh listening for joining us. Uh please do reach out to to Doug and the NIL advisory services team for any questions you might have. And uh again, thank you for joining us.